Bogus Thumbnails

[butler bill]

That sums it up very well, gryphondo and I'll own up to having written War and Peace-length messages several times!

Yes, but as long as they are not in Rar, they can be read

[lineback]

No matter what, you always manage to stay focused on the big picture!

[gryphondo]

lineback my man, I always find your posts, regardless of lenth, to be civil in tone and quite informative. You are indeed an asset to this board.

I was in a bit of hurry to get to work when I wrote my last comment, so I wasn't inclined to spend the time addressing every point that was being paried about. I hurriedly even put an s in front of fine, to spell sfine, which I edited a bit just ago.

[boddabing42]

I would also say, that even though I appreciate all the fine posting that goes on around here by some members, if it's too much of a pain or chore to do so, then don't.

Excellent suggestion, Gryph' - Agreed

[Q]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't being disrepectful in your answers

In the absence of any name or quote in your post, I'm goning to assume you're talking to me for the entirety of this post.

I did not intened to offend or disrespect _anybody_. Please accept my sincerest appologies if I have offended you, or anyone else for that matter!

even though some sound that way.

Is my style of quoting is the root source of the tone problem?

If it is, I prefer to have a context when I post. It's very news group like, where comments are placed in direct context to the reference.

If it is not, please tell me what the source is so we can work through it.

I've always given you respect in my disagreement.

I've never felt you were disrespecting me, or otherwise angry with me.

The nine post average is generally made up of picture sets or video and represents much more than 36 pictures - that was mildly insulting.

oh dear. this is not what I intended at all.

I was doing math outloud: 9 posts each with 4 _pictures_, not 4 segments of a container (rar/tar/zip). Now posting for me is troublesome and lengthy process. The overall point I apparently failed to make was that 30 minuites of effort to post 36 picutres is a waste of time from my perspective. Hence why I've only posted ~ 90 or so times with attachments.

Now if you were uploading using a container, I can see how you can get well more then 36 in 9 posts. Please understand that in no way was I trivializing your contribution to the community!

As a general comment, I personally I dislike containers... assembly of the parts is troublesome. When I click to download each part, the filenames have a 3 digit random number injected into them... So inorder to unpack them, I have to rename each of the parts. troublesome indeed.

A checksum script as I understand it will only give you files with the same size - mods frequently delete dups which contain the same image but a different logo which results in a different file size.

I agree the problem is complex, but to sit back and do nothing is not a good solution either.

I suggested a simple fingerprint as a first tier. I also suggested someone with image processing algorithim experience could eventually help with the fuzzy logic determination of duplicates. it's a big onion to peel away at, but you have to start someplace.

Duplicates where another pic of greater resolution is posted are considered upgrades and allowed.

I agree upgrades are encouraged, but the lesser resolution should be sacked as the lesser image can be derived from the larger resolution. I'd like to see it automated. I believe it can be automated.

I made my living for many years using tar many times a day and never liked it but it was the only tool we had so I dealt with it. WinZip and WinRAR are very more capable and no problem for me.

I too have been in the trenches with tar, dar, star, zip, rar... they are all very nice containers... They were all desiged for a specific purpose/job in mind, and have subsiquently adapted to fit other jobs.

However, until there is a image viewer or movie player that can play from these containers directly, I will store items in usable form or push them off line. I run reiserfs ontop of lvm on most if not all my servers. 2 million files on a volume is not a problem.

For someone viewing this site, they have to down load all the parts to an archive to view the contents. Granted some post a sample from the archive and it is appriciated, but it is just that: a sample.

What happens if the sample is not truly representative of the set, but the fav pick from the poster? If a contact sheet/index were present, I can see those pictures that contain that certain pouty face Erica campbell has...

The overwhelming point here is that if it was convient to post a set of files as just that a set of files, you and everyone else would be doing it. But the fact is posting is time consuming, it's easier to make a container, and post few segments then post all the files individually.

Let the problem define the solution, not the solution (phpbb with attachment_mod in this case) define the problem.

Concurrency is always a problem with a site like this but I don't think they do load balancing.

I don't think they LB either.

As a side note, I did not ask mike about that, or any other server specifics in my PM to him. I wanted to start out light by offering to help with two issues. He may or maynot be receptive to it... time will tell.

I disagree with Concurency being a problem with sites like this. In my experience, Concurancy problems are usually rooted in sloppy programming or unforseen implementation/configurations of a program.

They seem to be a pretty clean ISP with multiple T1s with no bandwidth limiting algorithms.

I can't really say, I've not read anything like that in the forums yet. I'm also not sure if my upload problems are due to route problems to this isp, throttling, or other issues.

I don't know this for a fact - this is what I believe based on observation. Once again Mike would be the person to answer these questions.

I contated him already. He might just say fry ice for all I know. =)

I'm not getting on your case - as I've said before if your knowledge can help thiis board, I'm certainly behind it.

I have not taken this as you getting on my case. I say My, and I still not 100% certain you were talking to me or not.

Again, I can't change how things were interpreted the first time around. I can only say that it was not my intention to disrespect you or anyone else.

[Q]

Gee......where do I begin? I do sense a bit of disrespectful tone in this discussion, but not enough to cut anyone off at the knees as of yet.

Thats good, I'm rather fond of my knees at the moment. =)

For those who don't wish to waste their time checking their own posts, don't expect me to waste my time cleaning it up for you. If any of you cleaned up as much crap as I do, you would understand that. Yes, by the way, it is easier to delete an erroneous thumbnail that someone didn't take the time to edit themselves. I spend quite a bit of time babysitting as it is.

It's rather simple to regenerate the thumbnails, so nobody should be deleting anything. Lets forgo the whole discussion that the software should work right to begin with and regeration should not be necessary.

It's funny that as much as I've posted on this board, I'm not having the challenges of other's that I hear complaining. Now I'm not saying your beefs aren't valid, just that I seem to post a fair amount of material and my thumbnails seem to work, and none of them morf into a different one once they're in place.

The inconsistant bugs are the "interesting" ones =) Establishing when in the process things happen is paramount to solving the bug. Initially I was under the opinion only existing thumbs would be mangled somehow. From this thread it's clear, it also happens on post creation. Could it also happen on a post edit?

There are a few glitches that this board experiences, and I have voiced my disdain of such on more than one occasion. As I said before, the fixes are out of my arena. For those of you with the fixes and know how, I encourage you to pm the admin and voice your concerns.

Again, I'm only trying to help the comunity. who knows, Mike might up and decide one day that the wiki style of cms is better... (i.e. Where content and discussions are seperated completely )

[butler bill]

I am not a Techi, but I can comment on 2 points
1. Yes, bad thumbs can also be produced when editing a post
2. I don't think that a post should be deleted when a new, larger version is created. The member that made the smaller post may become discouraged or pissed and not come back to comtribute again. The Board exists for it's members enjoyment, not for it's techinal excellence.

[gryphondo]

"It's rather simple to regenerate the thumbnails, so nobody should be deleting anything. Lets forgo the whole discussion that the software should work right to begin with and regeration should not be necessary."

No one has said anything about forgoing "the whole discussion that the software should work right to begin with and regeration should not be necessary." I think we all agree with that. The fact is, your arguement is redundant. Do we not all agree that the glitches should be fixed? Can I get an Amen! If I could click my fingers and get it done, I would have done so long before this topic was in play.

The admin has the juice to change the inner workings of the board, not me or any of the other mods. Believe me, in our mod exclusive discussion forum, we have voiced our concerns with glitches on the board on more than one occassion. Perhaps with your technical skill and knowhow, you can impress upon admin better than we, the fixes needed to sort these glitches out. As I've said before, pm the admin with your concerns. Personally, I hope you can accomplish what I and other's have not been able to.

In the meantime, as I mentioned before, most of the time when I come upon an erroneous thumbnail that the original poster could have edited, I just delete it. With all the posting I do, coupled with all the crap that I clean up around here, I don't have a whole lot of tolerance for those who fail to take the time to see that their posts are intact. If it's a newbie to the board who has such a post, I fix it and pm them with the fix. Not so for someone who has been here awhile. Regardless of the boards glitches, those who post have to take a modicum of responsibility when it comes to their posts. Too many don't, and they expect the mods to run around behind them with our little poop scoopers cleaning up the mess. Once again, I agree that the boards glitches should be corrected, but in the meantime we have to work with what we've got. Let me repeat that, I agree that the boards glitches should be corrected, but in the meantime we have to work with what we've got.

Nobody has posted more individual uploaded pics on this board than I, so I think I can speak with some experience regarding this. How is it that I can upload the amount of pics that I have without the problem? Maybe I'm just lucky, but the real reason is once I found that the glitch existed and it wasn't being corrected by admin, I used my simple little non-technical procedure to insure my thumbs were intact. If other's who post a whole lot less than I aren't willing to do the same, I don't have much sympathy and tolerance for them. We can agree to disagree with that, but in the final analysis it's my call to make.

Good luck with getting admin to make the appropriate fixes.

[lineback]

Q - my mistake for not prefacing my reply with your name. The problem was that your comment about 36 files definately sounded dismissive but I understand that was not your intention so no problem. After the posting restrictions I really don't have the heart to respond except to say lvm I know but reiserfs is new to me since I've been out of the business since 04/99. A jfs that isn't slow would be revolutionary. Not having to fsck 50 to 100 drives after a crash and reload backups for the corrupted ones. I went to school on HP-UX 10.0 several years ago and was excited to find out it included Veritas' jfs. When I got back I was told it slowed down processing of seismic data too much. Unlike transaction processing, seismic values speed above data integrity since you always have the original data and can rerun the jobs. There is no processing environment like it where speed is valued way more than system uptime or data safekeeping. I worked on systems and network clustering hardware that crashed or burned up several times a day but they were fast so we had to tryand keep them running.

[Q]

"It's rather simple to regenerate the thumbnails, so nobody should be deleting anything. Lets forgo the whole discussion that the software should work right to begin with and regeration should not be necessary."

No one has said anything about forgoing "the whole discussion that the software should work right to begin with and regeration should not be necessary."

First excuse my typos... regENeration... woops...

I poorly phrased that one. Completely my fault... The forgo line was a poor attempt on my part to prempt a lengthy philosophical discussion of software design and testing in this forum.

The admin has the juice to change the inner workings of the board, not me or any of the other mods.

Mike and I have already exchanged e-mails.

Believe me, in our mod exclusive discussion forum, we have voiced our concerns with glitches on the board on more than one occassion.

Maybe the bug discussions shouldn't be limited to the mods? There are a fair number of members here and I'm sure more then a few are good hacks...

Perhaps with your technical skill and knowhow, you can impress upon admin better than we, the fixes needed to sort these glitches out.

I believe the first set of e-mails with Mike were promissing and I look forward to more with him on these issues.

In the meantime, as I mentioned before, most of the time when I come upon an erroneous thumbnail that the original poster could have edited, I just delete it.

I'm suggesting that errant thumbnails should be left broken while I try to work with mike in fixing them.

With all the posting I do, coupled with all the crap that I clean up around here, I don't have a whole lot of tolerance for those who fail to take the time to see that their posts are intact.

Thank you for your time and efforts. Not enough folks say thanks ( me included).

If it's a newbie to the board who has such a post, I fix it and pm them with the fix.

For now I'm suggesting to leave them broken for a while. think of it as less work to do for a week or two while we see where mike and I can take this...

Regardless of the boards glitches, those who post have to take a modicum of responsibility when it comes to their posts. Too many don't, and they expect the mods to run around behind them with our little poop scoopers cleaning up the mess.

I'm really not sure what to say here.

Perhaps if there was a nice big reminder on the posting.php page saying users are responsible for checking their thumbnails are correct or suffer the rath of the admins, then you have every right to be angry.

I've found that if you don't dangle a big sign in front of folks, chances are they might not have read all the obscure posts. They might not know why the thumbs are wrong let alone how to fix them and that they are expected to fix them.

How is it that I can upload the amount of pics that I have without the problem?

I too have not experienced this problem first hand. I've only observed the result and offerred to help work on fixing it.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but the real reason is once I found that the glitch existed and it wasn't being corrected by admin, I used my simple little non-technical procedure to insure my thumbs were intact. If other's who post a whole lot less than I aren't willing to do the same, I don't have much sympathy and tolerance for them. We can agree to disagree with that, but in the final analysis it's my call to make.

See the above comment about big signs .

[butler bill]

Yes, bad thumbs can also be produced when editing a post

This is good. Can you be more specific? when editing and adding an attachment or just editing the post text?

I'm beginning to believe it has to do with tmp filenames in posting.php.

I don't think that a post should be deleted when a new, larger version is created. The member that made the smaller post may become discouraged or pissed and not come back to comtribute again. The Board exists for it's members enjoyment, not for it's techinal excellence.

I'm not saying delete their post, just the attachments on the post that are elsewhere at a higher resolution...

Do you think this would upset people? I believe the users would retain the same number of posts, just the attachments would be gone.

When repairing a bad thumb you will sometimes get another bad thumb, probable for the same reason that you got the first bad thumb.
If the attachment only is deleted you will have lots of meaningless posts Many members watch their post count and the number of times an attachment is viewed. I think denying this enjoyment would have a very harmfull effect on the morale of many members.

[gryphondo]

"I'm really not sure what to say here.

Perhaps if there was a nice big reminder on the posting.php page saying users are responsible for checking their thumbnails are correct or suffer the rath of the admins, then you have every right to be angry. "

You needn't say a thing, but of course you seem compelled to do so. Knock yourself out man. The point, is your point has been made. How much more redundant do you wish to be. Perhaps you need to have the last word. Well you can have it my man. I needn't be repetitive at this point because I've already stated what I have to say.

As far as my right to be angry, you're off the mark. Having little tolerance for those who choose not to edit their own post has nothing to do with being angry. You seem to be a bit too caught up in progressing your position to fully realize what I've said.

"Maybe the bug discussions shouldn't be limited to the mods? There are a fair number of members here and I'm sure more then a few are good hacks..."

Who said bug discussions are limited to the mods? Just because we mods have our own private discussion board does not limit you or anyone else to discussing bugs or anything else. If you feel the need to make a counter comment to what I or anyone else has to say, at least stick to the facts.

[snotmerchant]

Regardless of the boards glitches, those who post have to take a modicum of responsibility when it comes to their posts. Too many don't, and they expect the mods to run around behind them with our little poop scoopers cleaning up the mess.

I'm really not sure what to say here.

Perhaps if there was a nice big reminder on the posting.php page saying users are responsible for checking their thumbnails are correct or suffer the rath of the admins, then you have every right to be angry.

I've found that if you don't dangle a big sign in front of folks, chances are they might not have read all the obscure posts. They might not know why the thumbs are wrong let alone how to fix them and that they are expected to fix them.

I have to agree with gryph on the deleting thumbnails part and also disagree with you about the "sign" thing because I know when I joined I had to read a page that explained all the rules before I found the link that took me to the page where I could join and each forum has it's own set of rules posted at the top of the page.

Now I haven't been a mod as long as gryph or bill but for the time that I have been a mod one thing has become very clear...YOU CANNOT MAKE PEOPLE READ!!!

I and I'm sure every mod have countless PMs that we've sent to users that are still unread, some of those that do read even have enough balls to try and argue about what they've done wrong...they get banned quick!

Bottom line is, it's not anger that makes us quick to hit the delete botton but just the fact that even if we PMed these people about the thumbs most wont take the time to fix them.

[butler bill]

Damn ! Agreeing with Snot loosens my bowels, but 2 weeks ago when the board was down I did some cleaning up. I had 31 pages uf unread PMs in my outbox. At 50 per page, that adds up to more bad words than even Snot knows! ( probably ) Some members are literate and pay attention to their surroundings. But many, alas, come to the board with all their blood in their cock and none in their brain and are, therefore, impossible to communicate with.

[snotmerchant]

Damn ! Agreeing with Snot loosens my bowels, but 2 weeks ago when the board was down I did some cleaning up. I had 31 pages uf unread PMs in my outbox. At 50 per page, that adds up to more bad words than even Snot knows! ( probably ) Some members are literate and pay attention to their surroundings. But many, alas, come to the board with all their blood in their cock and none in their brain and are, therefore, impossible to communicate with.

HOLY SHIT wait, you agree with me?

aaaahhhhhh fuck, now the worlds gonna come to an end